ÿþ <html xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml" xmlns:rdf="http://www.w3.org/1999/02/22-rdf-syntax-ns#" xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/" xmlns:wn="http://xmlns.com/wordnet/1.6/" xmlns:foaf="http://xmlns.com/foaf/0.1/" lang="en"> <head> <title>SVG IRC Chat Logs for 2003-11-06</title> <link rel="stylesheet" type="text/css" href="/stylesheet.css"/> <link rel="stylesheet" type="text/css" href="irc.css"/> <meta http-equiv="Content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"/> </head> <body bgcolor="#ffffff" text="#000000"> <h1>SVG IRC Chat Logs for 2003-11-06</h1> <p>This is the automatically generated IRC log made by the <a href="http://cvs.ilrt.org/cvsweb/redland/logger/">logger bot</a> from the SVG IRC chat at <a href="irc://irc.freenode.net/svg">irc.freenode.net port 6667 channel #svg</a></p> <script type="text/javascript"> google_ad_client = "pub-9305740308701935"; google_ad_width = 728; google_ad_height = 90; google_ad_format = "728x90_as"; google_ad_type = "text"; google_ad_channel ="2431467364"; </script> <script type="text/javascript" src="http://pagead2.googlesyndication.com/pagead/show_ads.js"> //Comment </script> <hr/> <p>You are here: <a href="http://svg.jibbering.com/svg/">Logs Home</a> / 2003-11-06</p> <p><span class="time" id="T00-12-40"><a href="#T00-12-40">00:12:40</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;jazy_jaf&gt;</span> hi<br/> <span class="time" id="T00-12-48"><a href="#T00-12-48">00:12:48</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;jazy_jaf&gt;</span> somebody alive<br/> <span class="time" id="T00-13-14"><a href="#T00-13-14">00:13:14</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;schepers&gt;</span> barely<br/> <span class="time" id="T00-13-34"><a href="#T00-13-34">00:13:34</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;jazy_jaf&gt;</span> ah cool : ) <br/> <span class="time" id="T00-13-50"><a href="#T00-13-50">00:13:50</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;jazy_jaf&gt;</span> hey i got a short svg question, can i ask u?<br/> <span class="time" id="T00-14-18"><a href="#T00-14-18">00:14:18</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;schepers&gt;</span> lay it on me<br/> <span class="time" id="T00-14-22"><a href="#T00-14-22">00:14:22</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;jazy_jaf&gt;</span> ok cool<br/> <span class="time" id="T00-15-17"><a href="#T00-15-17">00:15:17</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;jazy_jaf&gt;</span> i need to know how to access and change the translate="transform(X,Y)" Y coord<br/> <span class="time" id="T00-15-40"><a href="#T00-15-40">00:15:40</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;jazy_jaf&gt;</span> because with getAttribute("translate")<br/> <span class="time" id="T00-15-45"><a href="#T00-15-45">00:15:45</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;jazy_jaf&gt;</span> i get the whole thing<br/> <span class="time" id="T00-16-03"><a href="#T00-16-03">00:16:03</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;jazy_jaf&gt;</span> like transform(0,0)<br/> <span class="time" id="T00-16-12"><a href="#T00-16-12">00:16:12</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;jazy_jaf&gt;</span> i just want the Y<br/> <span class="time" id="T00-16-24"><a href="#T00-16-24">00:16:24</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;schepers&gt;</span> first off, you should be using getAttributeNS(null, 'translate')<br/> <span class="time" id="T00-16-32"><a href="#T00-16-32">00:16:32</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;jazy_jaf&gt;</span> ok<br/> <span class="time" id="T00-16-32-1"><a href="#T00-16-32-1">00:16:32</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;schepers&gt;</span> but that's neither here nor there<br/> <span class="time" id="T00-16-55"><a href="#T00-16-55">00:16:55</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;jazy_jaf&gt;</span> why should i use getAttributeNS<br/> <span class="time" id="T00-17-30"><a href="#T00-17-30">00:17:30</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;schepers&gt;</span> you could try using var myMatrix = myElement.getCTM(); var myY = myMatrix.f;<br/> <span class="time" id="T00-18-35"><a href="#T00-18-35">00:18:35</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;schepers&gt;</span> because SVG is a multinamespace environment (it has xlink and other NSs), and you could run into problems with conflicting localnames<br/> <span class="time" id="T00-19-03"><a href="#T00-19-03">00:19:03</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;schepers&gt;</span> not likely at this point, but it will matter for code aging<br/> <span class="time" id="T00-19-30"><a href="#T00-19-30">00:19:30</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;schepers&gt;</span> and also, Batik doesn't like the other syntax<br/> <span class="time" id="T00-19-50"><a href="#T00-19-50">00:19:50</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;jazy_jaf&gt;</span> ok i see<br/> <span class="time" id="T00-19-55"><a href="#T00-19-55">00:19:55</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;JibberJim&gt;</span> getCTM is probably better, but you could also use RegExp's to extract it from the transform string<br/> <span class="time" id="T00-19-55-1"><a href="#T00-19-55-1">00:19:55</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;jazy_jaf&gt;</span> well i will try<br/> <span class="time" id="T00-20-06"><a href="#T00-20-06">00:20:06</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;jazy_jaf&gt;</span> hey jim ;)<br/> <span class="time" id="T00-20-16"><a href="#T00-20-16">00:20:16</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;schepers&gt;</span> yeah, but that's a bit more complex<br/> <span class="time" id="T00-20-23"><a href="#T00-20-23">00:20:23</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;jazy_jaf&gt;</span> ok thx...i will try<br/> <span class="time" id="T00-20-29"><a href="#T00-20-29">00:20:29</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;schepers&gt;</span> but maybe better, if you have nested transforms<br/> <span class="time" id="T00-21-11"><a href="#T00-21-11">00:21:11</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;schepers&gt;</span> hi, Jim<br/> <span class="time" id="T00-21-36"><a href="#T00-21-36">00:21:36</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;JibberJim&gt;</span> getCTM is best!<br/> <span class="time" id="T00-21-52"><a href="#T00-21-52">00:21:52</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;JibberJim&gt;</span> for transform's as f can only be effected by transforms.<br/> <span class="time" id="T00-21-58"><a href="#T00-21-58">00:21:58</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;JibberJim&gt;</span> translates I mean!<br/> <span class="time" id="T00-22-00"><a href="#T00-22-00">00:22:00</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;JibberJim&gt;</span> hi schepers<br/> <span class="time" id="T00-22-42"><a href="#T00-22-42">00:22:42</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;schepers&gt;</span> but does getCTM get the entire chain of nested translates in ASV6?<br/> <span class="time" id="T00-22-54"><a href="#T00-22-54">00:22:54</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;JibberJim&gt;</span> oh yeah...<br/> <span class="time" id="T00-23-13"><a href="#T00-23-13">00:23:13</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;schepers&gt;</span> which is the Correct behavior<br/> <span class="time" id="T00-23-33"><a href="#T00-23-33">00:23:33</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;schepers&gt;</span> but dependingon what you want it for, that might be best, too<br/> <span class="time" id="T00-23-37"><a href="#T00-23-37">00:23:37</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;jazy_jaf&gt;</span> cool<br/> <span class="time" id="T00-23-41"><a href="#T00-23-41">00:23:41</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;jazy_jaf&gt;</span> its working<br/> <span class="time" id="T00-23-44"><a href="#T00-23-44">00:23:44</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;jazy_jaf&gt;</span> thx :)<br/> <span class="time" id="T00-23-48"><a href="#T00-23-48">00:23:48</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;schepers&gt;</span> still, if you have the rege phrase, you might give it to him<br/> <span class="time" id="T00-23-52"><a href="#T00-23-52">00:23:52</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;schepers&gt;</span> np<br/> <span class="time" id="T00-24-05"><a href="#T00-24-05">00:24:05</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;jazy_jaf&gt;</span> getCTM works perfec although i dont know what it does right now lol<br/> <span class="time" id="T00-24-09"><a href="#T00-24-09">00:24:09</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;jazy_jaf&gt;</span> or what it is<br/> <span class="time" id="T00-24-12"><a href="#T00-24-12">00:24:12</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;schepers&gt;</span> (little does he know that it will break in mere months)<br/> <span class="time" id="T00-24-19"><a href="#T00-24-19">00:24:19</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;JibberJim&gt;</span> translateRegExp=/translate\(([-+]?\d+)(\s*[\s,]\s*)([-+]?\d+)\)\s*$/<br/> <span class="time" id="T00-24-38"><a href="#T00-24-38">00:24:38</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;JibberJim&gt;</span> but even that might be wrong, didn't RabYak post it to the list awhile back?<br/> <span class="time" id="T00-24-56"><a href="#T00-24-56">00:24:56</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;schepers&gt;</span> there's a fallback for you dj jazzy jeff<br/> <span class="time" id="T00-25-22"><a href="#T00-25-22">00:25:22</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;schepers&gt;</span> oh, I wouldn't know... I never read RabYak's posts, they're full of nonsense<br/> <span class="time" id="T00-25-32"><a href="#T00-25-32">00:25:32</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;schepers&gt;</span> &lt;/joke?<br/> <span class="time" id="T00-25-40"><a href="#T00-25-40">00:25:40</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;schepers&gt;</span> &lt;/joke&gt;<br/> <span class="time" id="T00-25-57"><a href="#T00-25-57">00:25:57</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;JibberJim&gt;</span> var result=transform.match(translateRegExp);<br/> <span class="time" id="T00-25-57-1"><a href="#T00-25-57-1">00:25:57</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;JibberJim&gt;</span> if (result == null || result.index == -1){<br/> <span class="time" id="T00-25-57-2"><a href="#T00-25-57-2">00:25:57</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;JibberJim&gt;</span> tx=0;ty=0<br/> <span class="time" id="T00-25-57-3"><a href="#T00-25-57-3">00:25:57</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;JibberJim&gt;</span> }else{<br/> <span class="time" id="T00-25-57-4"><a href="#T00-25-57-4">00:25:57</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;JibberJim&gt;</span> tx=parseFloat(result[1])<br/> <span class="time" id="T00-25-58"><a href="#T00-25-58">00:25:58</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;JibberJim&gt;</span> ty=parseFloat(result[3])<br/> <span class="time" id="T00-26-00"><a href="#T00-26-00">00:26:00</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;JibberJim&gt;</span> }<br/> <span class="time" id="T00-26-28"><a href="#T00-26-28">00:26:28</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;JibberJim&gt;</span> transform is the string from getAttributeNS(null,"translate") and tx,ty are the tx,ty values<br/> <span class="time" id="T00-26-39"><a href="#T00-26-39">00:26:39</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;schepers&gt;</span> yeah, that's good<br/> <span class="time" id="T00-26-56"><a href="#T00-26-56">00:26:56</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;JibberJim&gt;</span> + is better than parseFloat though - bad Jim - I wonder where I pasted the code from...<br/> <span class="time" id="T00-28-23"><a href="#T00-28-23">00:28:23</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;jazy_jaf&gt;</span> hey guys var myMatrix = myElement.getCTM(); var myY = myMatrix.f; works and i can read that Y...now how could i change it?<br/> <span class="time" id="T00-28-38"><a href="#T00-28-38">00:28:38</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;schepers&gt;</span> jazy_jaf: getCTM is the coordinate tranformation matrix, which is a matrix operation of all the tranformations (skew, rotate, translate, etc) that are currenty applied to the element in question<br/> <span class="time" id="T00-28-39"><a href="#T00-28-39">00:28:39</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;jazy_jaf&gt;</span> i want to read that Y which wokrs...add a int and then change it<br/> <span class="time" id="T00-28-54"><a href="#T00-28-54">00:28:54</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;jazy_jaf&gt;</span> ah ok<br/> <span class="time" id="T00-29-03"><a href="#T00-29-03">00:29:03</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;schepers&gt;</span> myMatrix.e = translated x<br/> <span class="time" id="T00-29-09"><a href="#T00-29-09">00:29:09</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;schepers&gt;</span> myMatrix.y = translated y<br/> <span class="time" id="T00-29-20"><a href="#T00-29-20">00:29:20</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;JibberJim&gt;</span> c and f I think schepers...<br/> <span class="time" id="T00-29-41"><a href="#T00-29-41">00:29:41</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;schepers&gt;</span> and you'll have to read up on it if you want to know the rest... those are the two most useful ones<br/> <span class="time" id="T00-29-52"><a href="#T00-29-52">00:29:52</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;JibberJim&gt;</span> there ain't a y - that'd be a funky big matrix (a transformation in 6 dimensions!)<br/> <span class="time" id="T00-29-53"><a href="#T00-29-53">00:29:53</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;schepers&gt;</span> e and f, thanks Jim<br/> <span class="time" id="T00-30-01"><a href="#T00-30-01">00:30:01</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;jazy_jaf&gt;</span> aaaighgt thx schepers creepers<br/> <span class="time" id="T00-30-04"><a href="#T00-30-04">00:30:04</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;jazy_jaf&gt;</span> :)<br/> <span class="time" id="T00-30-17"><a href="#T00-30-17">00:30:17</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;jazy_jaf&gt;</span> t<br/> <span class="time" id="T00-30-29"><a href="#T00-30-29">00:30:29</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;JibberJim&gt;</span> c and f isn't it? [a,b,c] [d,e,f] and c and f are the translates?<br/> <span class="time" id="T00-30-37"><a href="#T00-30-37">00:30:37</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;schepers&gt;</span> that took me a minute... it rhymes with peppers, not creepers<br/> <span class="time" id="T00-30-54"><a href="#T00-30-54">00:30:54</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;schepers&gt;</span> oh, I dont' think so... lemme check<br/> <span class="time" id="T00-34-13"><a href="#T00-34-13">00:34:13</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;schepers&gt;</span> I'm pretty sure it's E and F<br/> <span class="time" id="T00-34-18"><a href="#T00-34-18">00:34:18</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;schepers&gt;</span> e and f<br/> <span class="time" id="T00-35-29"><a href="#T00-35-29">00:35:29</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;JibberJim&gt;</span> yep!<br/> <span class="time" id="T00-35-30"><a href="#T00-35-30">00:35:30</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;JibberJim&gt;</span> sorry<br/> <span class="time" id="T00-35-45"><a href="#T00-35-45">00:35:45</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;JibberJim&gt;</span> sorry it's [ace][bdf]<br/> <span class="time" id="T00-36-01"><a href="#T00-36-01">00:36:01</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;schepers&gt;</span> cool<br/> <span class="time" id="T00-55-04"><a href="#T00-55-04">00:55:04</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;JibberJim&gt;</span> DJ Grand Master d'spec<br/> <span class="time" id="T00-55-37"><a href="#T00-55-37">00:55:37</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;schepers&gt;</span> come again?<br/> <span class="time" id="T00-55-52"><a href="#T00-55-52">00:55:52</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;JibberJim&gt;</span> It's dino's official title apparently/<br/> <span class="time" id="T00-56-09"><a href="#T00-56-09">00:56:09</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;schepers&gt;</span> lol<br/> <span class="time" id="T00-57-27"><a href="#T00-57-27">00:57:27</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;schepers&gt;</span> is the DJ for Dean Jackson, or Disc Jockey?<br/> <span class="time" id="T00-57-47"><a href="#T00-57-47">00:57:47</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;schepers&gt;</span> I think the Spec has mastered him this past month<br/> <span class="time" id="T10-10-57"><a href="#T10-10-57">10:10:57</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;graouts&gt;</span> hi kids<br/> <span class="time" id="T10-11-49"><a href="#T10-11-49">10:11:49</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;JibberJim&gt;</span> Hi grandpa<br/> <span class="time" id="T10-12-47"><a href="#T10-12-47">10:12:47</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;graouts&gt;</span> damn, and I'm probably your age too<br/> <span class="time" id="T10-13-21"><a href="#T10-13-21">10:13:21</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;JibberJim&gt;</span> probably younger I reckon/<br/> <span class="time" id="T10-13-36"><a href="#T10-13-36">10:13:36</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;graouts&gt;</span> how old are you anyway?<br/> <span class="time" id="T10-14-20"><a href="#T10-14-20">10:14:20</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;JibberJim&gt;</span> I turn 30 all too soon.<br/> <span class="time" id="T10-14-36"><a href="#T10-14-36">10:14:36</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;graouts&gt;</span> what? You looked younger on the pics<br/> <span class="time" id="T10-14-51"><a href="#T10-14-51">10:14:51</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;graouts&gt;</span> no wonder you're a grumpy bastard :)<br/> <span class="time" id="T10-15-05"><a href="#T10-15-05">10:15:05</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;JibberJim&gt;</span> Nope, 30 in just over a month<br/> <span class="time" id="T10-15-14"><a href="#T10-15-14">10:15:14</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;graouts&gt;</span> oh my, something to celebrate!<br/> <span class="time" id="T10-15-35"><a href="#T10-15-35">10:15:35</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;graouts&gt;</span> maybe a new draft to tear in shreds, if you're nice<br/> <span class="time" id="T10-15-45"><a href="#T10-15-45">10:15:45</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;JibberJim&gt;</span> Better be out before then!<br/> <span class="time" id="T10-17-02"><a href="#T10-17-02">10:17:02</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;graouts&gt;</span> hehe<br/> <span class="time" id="T10-21-50"><a href="#T10-21-50">10:21:50</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;graouts&gt;</span> yay, review finished<br/> <span class="time" id="T15-45-23"><a href="#T15-45-23">15:45:23</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;JibberJim&gt;</span> watcha RabYak<br/> <span class="time" id="T15-45-37"><a href="#T15-45-37">15:45:37</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;RabYak&gt;</span> Heyla.<br/> <span class="time" id="T16-00-59"><a href="#T16-00-59">16:00:59</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;JibberJim&gt;</span> been up to anything interesting?<br/> <span class="time" id="T16-01-20"><a href="#T16-01-20">16:01:20</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;JibberJim&gt;</span> (I mean obviously you've had nothing useful to do really, just waiting with baited breath for the new draft)<br/> <span class="time" id="T16-14-03"><a href="#T16-14-03">16:14:03</a></span> * darobin raises an eyebrow<br/> <span class="time" id="T16-20-01"><a href="#T16-20-01">16:20:01</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;RabYak&gt;</span> I have been waiting anxiously.<br/> <span class="time" id="T16-20-14"><a href="#T16-20-14">16:20:14</a></span> * RabYak ruffles his eyebrows at darobin<br/> <span class="time" id="T16-20-29"><a href="#T16-20-29">16:20:29</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;darobin&gt;</span> oh I didn't tell you? we decided we wouldn't do another draft<br/> <span class="time" id="T16-20-30"><a href="#T16-20-30">16:20:30</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;graouts&gt;</span> Good things take time<br/> <span class="time" id="T16-20-38"><a href="#T16-20-38">16:20:38</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;darobin&gt;</span> it takes too much time away from drinking<br/> <span class="time" id="T16-20-39"><a href="#T16-20-39">16:20:39</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;graouts&gt;</span> Yeah, go straight to rec!<br/> <span class="time" id="T16-20-45"><a href="#T16-20-45">16:20:45</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;RabYak&gt;</span> Mostly been pulled off ObjJob and UltimatePlaybook, at least for the next couple weeks, by my wife, to start working on the automation stuff for the new house we'll be building soon.<br/> <span class="time" id="T16-20-49"><a href="#T16-20-49">16:20:49</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;darobin&gt;</span> yeah<br/> <span class="time" id="T16-20-50"><a href="#T16-20-50">16:20:50</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;RabYak&gt;</span> So, SOOO much to learn.<br/> <span class="time" id="T16-20-58"><a href="#T16-20-58">16:20:58</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;graouts&gt;</span> We don't need any feedback, we're perfect already<br/> <span class="time" id="T16-21-07"><a href="#T16-21-07">16:21:07</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;darobin&gt;</span> drop the mail archive of the group on the Rec track and wait til something happens<br/> <span class="time" id="T16-21-32"><a href="#T16-21-32">16:21:32</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;darobin&gt;</span> well you could layer an SVG UI on top of the automation stuff!<br/> <span class="time" id="T16-21-51"><a href="#T16-21-51">16:21:51</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;RabYak&gt;</span> That's the plan, actually ;)<br/> <span class="time" id="T16-21-57"><a href="#T16-21-57">16:21:57</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;darobin&gt;</span> roxors!<br/> <span class="time" id="T16-22-01"><a href="#T16-22-01">16:22:01</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;JibberJim&gt;</span> Watch out for plumbers in the new house - they're evil!<br/> <span class="time" id="T16-22-10"><a href="#T16-22-10">16:22:10</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;darobin&gt;</span> there's an old TPJ with cool examples of X10 automation<br/> <span class="time" id="T16-22-47"><a href="#T16-22-47">16:22:47</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;RabYak&gt;</span> Since I haven't yet found any really good automation projects, my goal is to write a (crazy huge ambitious) framework that allows anyone to develop individual hardware plugin modules, which abstract the implementation for any particular technology and expose their own interface.<br/> <span class="time" id="T16-23-09"><a href="#T16-23-09">16:23:09</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;RabYak&gt;</span> And on the other end, it responds to various commands which produce XML representations of current interfaces.<br/> <span class="time" id="T16-23-20"><a href="#T16-23-20">16:23:20</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;darobin&gt;</span> ok<br/> <span class="time" id="T16-23-27"><a href="#T16-23-27">16:23:27</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;darobin&gt;</span> see you 'round 2005?<br/> <span class="time" id="T16-23-29"><a href="#T16-23-29">16:23:29</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;darobin&gt;</span> :)<br/> <span class="time" id="T16-23-35"><a href="#T16-23-35">16:23:35</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;_joshua&gt;</span> RabYak: Sounds like the CluePacket thing from Dashboard.<br/> <span class="time" id="T16-23-37"><a href="#T16-23-37">16:23:37</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;RabYak&gt;</span> And then my own web front end will communicate with this re-usable faceless module, and produce SVG maps of the house with the items overlayed on it :)<br/> <span class="time" id="T16-23-55"><a href="#T16-23-55">16:23:55</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;RabYak&gt;</span> joshua - ooh, goody, more relevant topics to research, thanks.<br/> <span class="time" id="T16-23-55-1"><a href="#T16-23-55-1">16:23:55</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;JibberJim&gt;</span> Yeah it does sound a lot like Dashboard or the rendezvous/zeroconf stuff?<br/> <span class="time" id="T16-24-03"><a href="#T16-24-03">16:24:03</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;darobin&gt;</span> here's one, but iirc that wasn't it: http://www.foo.be/docs/tpj/issues/vol5_1/tpj0501-0007.html<br/> <span class="time" id="T16-24-04"><a href="#T16-24-04">16:24:04</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;_joshua&gt;</span> RabYak: Just an idea to steal<br/> <span class="time" id="T16-24-41"><a href="#T16-24-41">16:24:41</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;RabYak&gt;</span> The X10 stuff is nice and cheap (and pretty modular) but a fair number of people have told me it's kinda crap.<br/> <span class="time" id="T16-24-48"><a href="#T16-24-48">16:24:48</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;darobin&gt;</span> I think this was the one: http://www.foo.be/docs/tpj/issues/vol5_1/tpj0501-0006.html<br/> <span class="time" id="T16-24-54"><a href="#T16-24-54">16:24:54</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;RabYak&gt;</span> Friend did a lot of it in his house, and kept having pieces crash or get confused.<br/> <span class="time" id="T16-24-58"><a href="#T16-24-58">16:24:58</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;_joshua&gt;</span> RabYak: idea for you<br/> <span class="time" id="T16-25-05"><a href="#T16-25-05">16:25:05</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;darobin&gt;</span> ah sad that<br/> <span class="time" id="T16-25-12"><a href="#T16-25-12">16:25:12</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;_joshua&gt;</span> RabYak: take over one of the channels in the CTV system in your house<br/> <span class="time" id="T16-25-23"><a href="#T16-25-23">16:25:23</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;_joshua&gt;</span> MAke channel 3 or whatever be the House Information Channel<br/> <span class="time" id="T16-25-42"><a href="#T16-25-42">16:25:42</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;_joshua&gt;</span> Another idea: mount a camera on the ceiling in the kitchen. So you can watch the stove from other rooms.<br/> <span class="time" id="T16-25-51"><a href="#T16-25-51">16:25:51</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;RabYak&gt;</span> Will have a CCTV system for the security cams, but TV suxxors as an interface IMO.<br/> <span class="time" id="T16-25-53"><a href="#T16-25-53">16:25:53</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;_joshua&gt;</span> also headlines, weather, etc on the house channel.<br/> <span class="time" id="T16-26-05"><a href="#T16-26-05">16:26:05</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;RabYak&gt;</span> 17" wireless touchpad thin client 'tablets' :)<br/> <span class="time" id="T16-26-10"><a href="#T16-26-10">16:26:10</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;_joshua&gt;</span> It sucks as THE interface, yes. As one of the interface it'll do.<br/> <span class="time" id="T16-26-16"><a href="#T16-26-16">16:26:16</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;RabYak&gt;</span> (Some will be 15", some not wireless.)<br/> <span class="time" id="T16-26-19"><a href="#T16-26-19">16:26:19</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;_joshua&gt;</span> I assumed you were actually gonna try to save money :)<br/> <span class="time" id="T16-26-34"><a href="#T16-26-34">16:26:34</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;_joshua&gt;</span> touchpad -&gt; grime<br/> <span class="time" id="T16-26-42"><a href="#T16-26-42">16:26:42</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;RabYak&gt;</span> Not in round one, anyhow, not until I come up with the initial budget and we have to pare back.<br/> <span class="time" id="T16-27-00"><a href="#T16-27-00">16:27:00</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;JibberJim&gt;</span> You building the house from scratch?<br/> <span class="time" id="T16-27-03"><a href="#T16-27-03">16:27:03</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;_joshua&gt;</span> I tried this with a Gateway Connected Touchpad ($100 transmeta 10" touchscreen device)<br/> <span class="time" id="T16-27-03-1"><a href="#T16-27-03-1">16:27:03</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;RabYak&gt;</span> Yup.<br/> <span class="time" id="T16-27-17"><a href="#T16-27-17">16:27:17</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;RabYak&gt;</span> Wife got her architecture degree last year, and she's makin' the plans.<br/> <span class="time" id="T16-27-53"><a href="#T16-27-53">16:27:53</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;darobin&gt;</span> cool!<br/> <span class="time" id="T16-28-03"><a href="#T16-28-03">16:28:03</a></span> * darobin would love to have an architect gf<br/> <span class="time" id="T16-28-03-1"><a href="#T16-28-03-1">16:28:03</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;JibberJim&gt;</span> we're 15% over budget on this place and late (which if you're paying builders we're not would up costs even more) and the conservatory just has footings - big time contingencies!<br/> <span class="time" id="T16-28-14"><a href="#T16-28-14">16:28:14</a></span> * JibberJim hopes the plans are in SVG!<br/> <span class="time" id="T16-28-24"><a href="#T16-28-24">16:28:24</a></span> * JibberJim would love to have a gf<br/> <span class="time" id="T16-28-40"><a href="#T16-28-40">16:28:40</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;RabYak&gt;</span> They're not yet...her laptop is mostly dead, so should couldn't give me the EPS two nights ago when I asked her for them.<br/> <span class="time" id="T16-28-51"><a href="#T16-28-51">16:28:51</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;RabYak&gt;</span> Speaking of which, I think I'll ping her about that while she's at work with a real computer.<br/> <span class="time" id="T16-29-35"><a href="#T16-29-35">16:29:35</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;RabYak&gt;</span> Good thing is that her architecture firm (for which she works, not owns) is a design-build firm, so if all goes well with them they'll be the builders and we'll have an 'in' both on cost and especially on honesty.<br/> <span class="time" id="T16-29-46"><a href="#T16-29-46">16:29:46</a></span> * darobin thinks JibberJim should look for a gf where gf can be found, ie in Paris<br/> <span class="time" id="T16-30-06"><a href="#T16-30-06">16:30:06</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;JibberJim&gt;</span> Er, a french one?<br/> <span class="time" id="T16-30-22"><a href="#T16-30-22">16:30:22</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;graouts&gt;</span> only way to fly man!<br/> <span class="time" id="T16-30-37"><a href="#T16-30-37">16:30:37</a></span> * JibberJim goes for short blonde girls generally areas where vikings were common is good ground for me.<br/> <span class="time" id="T16-30-41"><a href="#T16-30-41">16:30:41</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;darobin&gt;</span> if you have the patience they're worth it, otherwise Paris isn't populated by frogs only<br/> <span class="time" id="T16-31-31"><a href="#T16-31-31">16:31:31</a></span> * darobin wonders if graouts is thinking "Anna" too<br/> <span class="time" id="T16-31-36"><a href="#T16-31-36">16:31:36</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;graouts&gt;</span> well don't stay in the UK anyway<br/> <span class="time" id="T16-31-39"><a href="#T16-31-39">16:31:39</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;graouts&gt;</span> Anna could be smaller<br/> <span class="time" id="T16-31-45"><a href="#T16-31-45">16:31:45</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;darobin&gt;</span> ha<br/> <span class="time" id="T16-31-52"><a href="#T16-31-52">16:31:52</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;darobin&gt;</span> for *you*<br/> <span class="time" id="T16-31-56"><a href="#T16-31-56">16:31:56</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;graouts&gt;</span> I'm thinking quite a few swede chicks in fact<br/> <span class="time" id="T16-32-02"><a href="#T16-32-02">16:32:02</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;darobin&gt;</span> she qualifies as short<br/> <span class="time" id="T16-32-05"><a href="#T16-32-05">16:32:05</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;graouts&gt;</span> hehehe<br/> <span class="time" id="T16-32-16"><a href="#T16-32-16">16:32:16</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;graouts&gt;</span> I like to fit mine in my pockets<br/> <span class="time" id="T16-32-20"><a href="#T16-32-20">16:32:20</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;darobin&gt;</span> especially as JibberJim is rather tall<br/> <span class="time" id="T16-32-26"><a href="#T16-32-26">16:32:26</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;graouts&gt;</span> Although there are exceptions<br/> <span class="time" id="T16-32-36"><a href="#T16-32-36">16:32:36</a></span> * JibberJim has not (and probably never would) go out with a girl taller than 5'4"<br/> <span class="time" id="T16-32-43"><a href="#T16-32-43">16:32:43</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;graouts&gt;</span> man, did you know JibberJim was going on his thirties?<br/> <span class="time" id="T16-32-49"><a href="#T16-32-49">16:32:49</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;graouts&gt;</span> JibberJim, go metric<br/> <span class="time" id="T16-32-52"><a href="#T16-32-52">16:32:52</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;JibberJim&gt;</span> (dunno what that is in funny french measurements)<br/> <span class="time" id="T16-32-56"><a href="#T16-32-56">16:32:56</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;darobin&gt;</span> graouts: JibberJim is our friend, we can't let him have a swedish gf. Finnish mucho better!<br/> <span class="time" id="T16-33-05"><a href="#T16-33-05">16:33:05</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;JibberJim&gt;</span> about 24cm shorter than me.<br/> <span class="time" id="T16-33-08"><a href="#T16-33-08">16:33:08</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;graouts&gt;</span> swedish is decent I must say<br/> <span class="time" id="T16-33-13"><a href="#T16-33-13">16:33:13</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;darobin&gt;</span> bah<br/> <span class="time" id="T16-33-13-1"><a href="#T16-33-13-1">16:33:13</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;graouts&gt;</span> Never experienced finish<br/> <span class="time" id="T16-33-22"><a href="#T16-33-22">16:33:22</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;darobin&gt;</span> Anna is 1.55m<br/> <span class="time" id="T16-33-27"><a href="#T16-33-27">16:33:27</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;graouts&gt;</span> Nooooooo<br/> <span class="time" id="T16-33-36"><a href="#T16-33-36">16:33:36</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;graouts&gt;</span> She's taller than H though no?<br/> <span class="time" id="T16-33-44"><a href="#T16-33-44">16:33:44</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;darobin&gt;</span> I don't think so<br/> <span class="time" id="T16-33-53"><a href="#T16-33-53">16:33:53</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;darobin&gt;</span> she just wasn't made in a dollshop<br/> <span class="time" id="T16-33-58"><a href="#T16-33-58">16:33:58</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;JibberJim&gt;</span> 5'1" so a nice height!<br/> <span class="time" id="T16-34-20"><a href="#T16-34-20">16:34:20</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;darobin&gt;</span> see! you should come to Paris. In addition to that, she has nothing against brits<br/> <span class="time" id="T16-35-16"><a href="#T16-35-16">16:35:16</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;JibberJim&gt;</span> hmm, one girl odd enough to know you two - maybe not :-)<br/> <span class="time" id="T16-36-03"><a href="#T16-36-03">16:36:03</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;JibberJim&gt;</span> There's an SVG contract knocking about in London today if you want to come to London graouts...<br/> <span class="time" id="T16-36-19"><a href="#T16-36-19">16:36:19</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;graouts&gt;</span> No telecommuting Jim?<br/> <span class="time" id="T16-36-29"><a href="#T16-36-29">16:36:29</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;graouts&gt;</span> I'm interested in getting whatever you have on this though<br/> <span class="time" id="T16-36-58"><a href="#T16-36-58">16:36:58</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;JibberJim&gt;</span> You could try them.<br/> <span class="time" id="T16-37-06"><a href="#T16-37-06">16:37:06</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;graouts&gt;</span> JibberJim, you'd be surprised of Robin and I's acquaintances<br/> <span class="time" id="T16-37-13"><a href="#T16-37-13">16:37:13</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;graouts&gt;</span> JibberJim, who they?<br/> <span class="time" id="T16-37-36"><a href="#T16-37-36">16:37:36</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;JibberJim&gt;</span><a href="http://www.jobsite.co.uk/cgi-bin/vacdetails.pl?search_db_no=2&amp;no_jbe=0&amp;selection=911668401&amp;vn=4">http://www.jobsite.co.uk/cgi-bin/vacdetails.pl?search_db_no=2&amp;no_jbe=0&amp;selection=911668401&amp;vn=4</a><br/> <span class="time" id="T16-38-13"><a href="#T16-38-13">16:38:13</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;graouts&gt;</span> amazing how many SVG jobs are popping up these days<br/> <span class="time" id="T16-38-36"><a href="#T16-38-36">16:38:36</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;JibberJim&gt;</span> There's a good few in the UK - but here I am (about to be) hacking on javascript...<br/> <span class="time" id="T16-39-02"><a href="#T16-39-02">16:39:02</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;graouts&gt;</span> "knowledge of IIS"... oops<br/> <span class="time" id="T16-39-14"><a href="#T16-39-14">16:39:14</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;graouts&gt;</span> don't you like hacking on JS?<br/> <span class="time" id="T16-40-17"><a href="#T16-40-17">16:40:17</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;JibberJim&gt;</span> Oh yeah, it's fun - but I'd like to play with SVG to.<br/> <span class="time" id="T16-41-04"><a href="#T16-41-04">16:41:04</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;graouts&gt;</span> anyway, I'm not willing to spend 3 months in London<br/> <span class="time" id="T16-42-35"><a href="#T16-42-35">16:42:35</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;darobin&gt;</span> ah, I'd move to London for a three months SVG contract, but then here I am hacking on specs and stuff...<br/> <span class="time" id="T16-42-59"><a href="#T16-42-59">16:42:59</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;JibberJim&gt;</span> but we have svg pub meets in London! :-)<br/> <span class="time" id="T16-43-22"><a href="#T16-43-22">16:43:22</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;JibberJim&gt;</span> what's wrong with London for 3 months - no Anna?<br/> <span class="time" id="T16-44-39"><a href="#T16-44-39">16:44:39</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;graouts&gt;</span> No H and crap british city<br/> <span class="time" id="T16-45-20"><a href="#T16-45-20">16:45:20</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;JibberJim&gt;</span> True, but 3 months, and you can weekend in Paris...<br/> <span class="time" id="T16-45-39"><a href="#T16-45-39">16:45:39</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;graouts&gt;</span> I would have a mental breakdown in London<br/> <span class="time" id="T16-45-51"><a href="#T16-45-51">16:45:51</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;graouts&gt;</span> Can't take it more than 3 days<br/> <span class="time" id="T17-43-00"><a href="#T17-43-00">17:43:00</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;darobin&gt;</span> JibberJim: I lost the mail I sent you and doug about the shadow element, do you happen to still have it?<br/> <span class="time" id="T17-44-44"><a href="#T17-44-44">17:44:44</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;JibberJim&gt;</span> Yep, want it forwarded back?<br/> <span class="time" id="T17-46-21"><a href="#T17-46-21">17:46:21</a></span> * JibberJim does...<br/> <span class="time" id="T17-48-57"><a href="#T17-48-57">17:48:57</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;darobin&gt;</span> thanks a lot!<br/> <span class="time" id="T17-49-09"><a href="#T17-49-09">17:49:09</a></span> * darobin remembered he'd been talking on IRC when he saw the message :)<br/> <span class="time" id="T20-15-33"><a href="#T20-15-33">20:15:33</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;darobin&gt;</span> JibberJim: you still around<br/> <span class="time" id="T20-16-45"><a href="#T20-16-45">20:16:45</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;JibberJim&gt;</span> ye<br/> <span class="time" id="T20-17-03"><a href="#T20-17-03">20:17:03</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;JibberJim&gt;</span> about to walk out the door, but can delay, just going to shop...<br/> <span class="time" id="T20-18-03"><a href="#T20-18-03">20:18:03</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;darobin&gt;</span> hallo<br/> <span class="time" id="T20-18-18"><a href="#T20-18-18">20:18:18</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;JibberJim&gt;</span> what can I do you for?<br/> <span class="time" id="T20-18-33"><a href="#T20-18-33">20:18:33</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;darobin&gt;</span> hey... funnily enough this is not darobin tho<br/> <span class="time" id="T20-18-51"><a href="#T20-18-51">20:18:51</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;darobin&gt;</span> apparently you have been talkin bout me today<br/> <span class="time" id="T20-19-38"><a href="#T20-19-38">20:19:38</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;JibberJim&gt;</span> not really, more the other two, have you read all the odd things they've been saying about you?<br/> <span class="time" id="T20-19-40"><a href="#T20-19-40">20:19:40</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;anna&gt;</span> robin dragged to me his phone meeting so that we could continue to drink beer togethre<br/> <span class="time" id="T20-20-04"><a href="#T20-20-04">20:20:04</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;JibberJim&gt;</span> I was mostly just saying nice things about your height and hair colour!<br/> <span class="time" id="T20-20-15"><a href="#T20-20-15">20:20:15</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;anna&gt;</span> 'you' did englobe the others too<br/> <span class="time" id="T20-20-21"><a href="#T20-20-21">20:20:21</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;anna&gt;</span> cheers<br/> <span class="time" id="T20-20-55"><a href="#T20-20-55">20:20:55</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;JibberJim&gt;</span> Although to be honest, many people who know me say it's an unhealthy obsession.<br/> <span class="time" id="T20-21-17"><a href="#T20-21-17">20:21:17</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;anna&gt;</span> oh you have a history with short blondes?<br/> <span class="time" id="T20-21-35"><a href="#T20-21-35">20:21:35</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;JibberJim&gt;</span> _Almost_ without exception yes.<br/> <span class="time" id="T20-21-49"><a href="#T20-21-49">20:21:49</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;anna&gt;</span> i can see why they might say that then<br/> <span class="time" id="T20-22-21"><a href="#T20-22-21">20:22:21</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;JibberJim&gt;</span> I think it's healthy enough, they're just nicer than other girls.<br/> <span class="time" id="T20-22-33"><a href="#T20-22-33">20:22:33</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;anna&gt;</span> we tend to be...<br/> <span class="time" id="T20-25-17"><a href="#T20-25-17">20:25:17</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;JibberJim&gt;</span> stupid internet.<br/> <span class="time" id="T20-25-44"><a href="#T20-25-44">20:25:44</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;anna&gt;</span> hello?<br/> <span class="time" id="T20-26-04"><a href="#T20-26-04">20:26:04</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;JibberJim&gt;</span> So what do you do other than drink Beer with Robin, and talk to strange blokes on the internet after he tells you to?<br/> <span class="time" id="T20-27-34"><a href="#T20-27-34">20:27:34</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;anna&gt;</span> not much to be honest...<br/> <span class="time" id="T20-27-50"><a href="#T20-27-50">20:27:50</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;JibberJim&gt;</span> Sounds good - hopefully Robin buys the beer then.<br/> <span class="time" id="T20-27-51"><a href="#T20-27-51">20:27:51</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;anna&gt;</span> drinking beer with robin is pretty much a full time occupation you know<br/> <span class="time" id="T20-28-03"><a href="#T20-28-03">20:28:03</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;anna&gt;</span> he has tonight <br/> <span class="time" id="T20-28-10"><a href="#T20-28-10">20:28:10</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;JibberJim&gt;</span> I have drunk beer with him certainly - mind you he turned up late...<br/> <span class="time" id="T20-28-45"><a href="#T20-28-45">20:28:45</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;anna&gt;</span> yeah... nice guy but no watch<br/> <span class="time" id="T20-28-55"><a href="#T20-28-55">20:28:55</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;anna&gt;</span> so you in london?<br/> <span class="time" id="T20-29-23"><a href="#T20-29-23">20:29:23</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;JibberJim&gt;</span> Not at the moment, but next week<br/> <span class="time" id="T20-29-54"><a href="#T20-29-54">20:29:54</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;anna&gt;</span> where are you then? is it raining?<br/> <span class="time" id="T20-30-18"><a href="#T20-30-18">20:30:18</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;JibberJim&gt;</span> I'm in Exmouth - and it never rains in Exmouth it's one of the sunniest places in England<br/> <span class="time" id="T20-30-35"><a href="#T20-30-35">20:30:35</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;anna&gt;</span> where the fuck is exmouth?<br/> <span class="time" id="T20-30-52"><a href="#T20-30-52">20:30:52</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;anna&gt;</span> pardon my language<br/> <span class="time" id="T20-31-15"><a href="#T20-31-15">20:31:15</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;JibberJim&gt;</span> It should be famous - it's where I grew up - everyone should know it! It's in the south west of England.<br/> <span class="time" id="T20-31-45"><a href="#T20-31-45">20:31:45</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;anna&gt;</span> ok. i don't know britain well at all to be honest...<br/> <span class="time" id="T20-32-08"><a href="#T20-32-08">20:32:08</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;JibberJim&gt;</span> Did I get it right that you're swedish?<br/> <span class="time" id="T20-32-23"><a href="#T20-32-23">20:32:23</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;darobin&gt;</span> now now<br/> <span class="time" id="T20-32-47"><a href="#T20-32-47">20:32:47</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;darobin&gt;</span> you can take advantage of the fact that I turned up an hour too early for telcon and dragged Anna with me<br/> <span class="time" id="T20-32-49"><a href="#T20-32-49">20:32:49</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;JibberJim&gt;</span> ah, telecon over? - good when's the draft released?<br/> <span class="time" id="T20-33-01"><a href="#T20-33-01">20:33:01</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;darobin&gt;</span> but please please don't call her Swedish!<br/> <span class="time" id="T20-33-06"><a href="#T20-33-06">20:33:06</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;darobin&gt;</span> Suomi!<br/> <span class="time" id="T20-33-42"><a href="#T20-33-42">20:33:42</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;darobin&gt;</span> &lt;darobin&gt; graouts: JibberJim is our friend, we can't let him have a swedish gf. Finnish mucho better!<br/> <span class="time" id="T20-33-53"><a href="#T20-33-53">20:33:53</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;darobin&gt;</span> telcon in 30minb<br/> <span class="time" id="T20-33-57"><a href="#T20-33-57">20:33:57</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;JibberJim&gt;</span> Ah, apologies. I should impress her with the names of my computers coming from Finnish childrens stories then?<br/> <span class="time" id="T20-34-06"><a href="#T20-34-06">20:34:06</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;anna&gt;</span> sure<br/> <span class="time" id="T20-34-28"><a href="#T20-34-28">20:34:28</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;JibberJim&gt;</span> erm, my computers are named from characters of Finnish children stories :-)<br/> <span class="time" id="T20-34-39"><a href="#T20-34-39">20:34:39</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;anna&gt;</span> which would be...?<br/> <span class="time" id="T20-34-56"><a href="#T20-34-56">20:34:56</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;JibberJim&gt;</span> Snork, Moomin and the sadly departed FillyJonk.<br/> <span class="time" id="T20-35-24"><a href="#T20-35-24">20:35:24</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;anna&gt;</span> ok maybe they translate badly...<br/> <span class="time" id="T20-35-43"><a href="#T20-35-43">20:35:43</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;anna&gt;</span> Muumi<br/> <span class="time" id="T20-35-47"><a href="#T20-35-47">20:35:47</a></span> * JibberJim used to be late for work every day after watching the Moomins <br/> <span class="time" id="T20-36-01"><a href="#T20-36-01">20:36:01</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;anna&gt;</span> you should have read them<br/> <span class="time" id="T20-36-15"><a href="#T20-36-15">20:36:15</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;JibberJim&gt;</span> I have, but that didn't make me late for work...<br/> <span class="time" id="T20-36-15-1"><a href="#T20-36-15-1">20:36:15</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;anna&gt;</span> i had these huuuge books with pictures of muumi<br/> <span class="time" id="T20-36-38"><a href="#T20-36-38">20:36:38</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;JibberJim&gt;</span> I didn't read in the native Finnish though, I have to admit...<br/> <span class="time" id="T20-36-44"><a href="#T20-36-44">20:36:44</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;anna&gt;</span> robin does not know the muumi<br/> <span class="time" id="T20-36-50"><a href="#T20-36-50">20:36:50</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;anna&gt;</span> i am shocked<br/> <span class="time" id="T20-37-01"><a href="#T20-37-01">20:37:01</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;anna&gt;</span> did you know the author of muumi is lesbian?<br/> <span class="time" id="T20-37-07"><a href="#T20-37-07">20:37:07</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;JibberJim&gt;</span> It's bad isn't...<br/> <span class="time" id="T20-37-38"><a href="#T20-37-38">20:37:38</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;JibberJim&gt;</span> No, I have to say I missed that - a sad day when she died.<br/> <span class="time" id="T20-38-09"><a href="#T20-38-09">20:38:09</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;anna&gt;</span> but she is also swedish finnish<br/> <span class="time" id="T20-38-11"><a href="#T20-38-11">20:38:11</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;anna&gt;</span> was<br/> <span class="time" id="T20-38-21"><a href="#T20-38-21">20:38:21</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;JibberJim&gt;</span> Oh, is that bad?<br/> <span class="time" id="T20-39-57"><a href="#T20-39-57">20:39:57</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;anna&gt;</span> not bad, EVIL<br/> <span class="time" id="T20-40-28"><a href="#T20-40-28">20:40:28</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;anna&gt;</span> they pretend to be finnish but they talk swedish (and eat children)<br/> <span class="time" id="T20-40-59"><a href="#T20-40-59">20:40:59</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;JibberJim&gt;</span> Right, I'll remember to take great care with children when in finland around swedish speakers.<br/> <span class="time" id="T20-41-25"><a href="#T20-41-25">20:41:25</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;JibberJim&gt;</span> (although I dunno if I'd tell the difference... - I've never been :-(<br/> <span class="time" id="T20-41-53"><a href="#T20-41-53">20:41:53</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;anna&gt;</span> oh but it's not just in Finland, swedes are evil everywhere didn't you know?<br/> <span class="time" id="T20-42-07"><a href="#T20-42-07">20:42:07</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;anna&gt;</span> you should go, it's a beautiful country, full of snow and stuff<br/> <span class="time" id="T20-42-14"><a href="#T20-42-14">20:42:14</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;anna&gt;</span> and shots, excellent vodka shots<br/> <span class="time" id="T20-43-07"><a href="#T20-43-07">20:43:07</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;JibberJim&gt;</span> Really, the last Swedish couple were very nice I spent a day trapped in a hostel in south africa whilst it rained like crazy with what seemed like a nice swedish couple - they were obviously waiting to eat my children...<br/> <span class="time" id="T20-43-40"><a href="#T20-43-40">20:43:40</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;JibberJim&gt;</span> Yeah Finland looks nice - a previous short blonde "friend" of mine went their - came back with lots of nice snow pictures...<br/> <span class="time" id="T20-43-59"><a href="#T20-43-59">20:43:59</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;anna&gt;</span> YES! they get hungry when it rains! :)<br/> <span class="time" id="T20-44-26"><a href="#T20-44-26">20:44:26</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;anna&gt;</span> oooh, but I also have pictures of frozen lakes!<br/> <span class="time" id="T20-44-27"><a href="#T20-44-27">20:44:27</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;JibberJim&gt;</span> Ah I got them though - I've not any children, they time befriending me was wasted!<br/> <span class="time" id="T20-44-51"><a href="#T20-44-51">20:44:51</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;anna&gt;</span> takes a while to tell them apart from "snow pics", but it's worth it once you acquire the taste<br/> <span class="time" id="T20-45-15"><a href="#T20-45-15">20:45:15</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;JibberJim&gt;</span> Right, like Finnish vodka and Russian Vodka I imagine?<br/> <span class="time" id="T20-45-24"><a href="#T20-45-24">20:45:24</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;anna&gt;</span> huh?<br/> <span class="time" id="T20-45-37"><a href="#T20-45-37">20:45:37</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;anna&gt;</span> russian vodka is what we give to our children<br/> <span class="time" id="T20-45-46"><a href="#T20-45-46">20:45:46</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;anna&gt;</span> (so that they can scare the swedes away)<br/> <span class="time" id="T20-46-10"><a href="#T20-46-10">20:46:10</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;anna&gt;</span> finnish vodka is much better, and comes in exotic flavours<br/> <span class="time" id="T20-46-31"><a href="#T20-46-31">20:46:31</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;JibberJim&gt;</span> Right... okay, I'll have to drink more of the proper swedish stuff - so if Finland is so nice, with the snow and vodka etc. why hang around with dodgy SVG guys in Paris?<br/> <span class="time" id="T20-47-29"><a href="#T20-47-29">20:47:29</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;anna&gt;</span> because they buy me beer!<br/> <span class="time" id="T20-48-07"><a href="#T20-48-07">20:48:07</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;JibberJim&gt;</span> Ah, good point!<br/> <span class="time" id="T20-48-15"><a href="#T20-48-15">20:48:15</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;anna&gt;</span> paris is also a great place to be unemployed<br/> <span class="time" id="T20-48-25"><a href="#T20-48-25">20:48:25</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;anna&gt;</span> lots of pretty scenery<br/> <span class="time" id="T20-48-41"><a href="#T20-48-41">20:48:41</a></span> * JibberJim has never been - france I've always managed to avoid...<br/> <span class="time" id="T20-49-11"><a href="#T20-49-11">20:49:11</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;anna&gt;</span> you should just come and avoid the french people<br/> <span class="time" id="T20-49-37"><a href="#T20-49-37">20:49:37</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;JibberJim&gt;</span> Sounds like a sensible plan... although if Robin'd buy me beer too...<br/> <span class="time" id="T20-49-44"><a href="#T20-49-44">20:49:44</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;anna&gt;</span> (darobin thinks you could use the excuse of being invited to the next F2F to drop by)<br/> <span class="time" id="T20-50-01"><a href="#T20-50-01">20:50:01</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;anna&gt;</span> oh robin would buy you beer!<br/> <span class="time" id="T20-51-11"><a href="#T20-51-11">20:51:11</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;JibberJim&gt;</span> French beer is okay too...<br/> <span class="time" id="T20-51-30"><a href="#T20-51-30">20:51:30</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;anna&gt;</span> of course not, but the wine is fine<br/> <span class="time" id="T20-51-41"><a href="#T20-51-41">20:51:41</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;anna&gt;</span> and free beer beats good beer any day...<br/> <span class="time" id="T20-51-42"><a href="#T20-51-42">20:51:42</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;JibberJim&gt;</span> Mind you he invites schepers here skiing - I just get offered beer...<br/> <span class="time" id="T20-51-59"><a href="#T20-51-59">20:51:59</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;JibberJim&gt;</span> don't talk to me about wine - my laptop is knackered because of it.<br/> <span class="time" id="T20-52-03"><a href="#T20-52-03">20:52:03</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;anna&gt;</span> I'm sure he'd invite you skiing :)<br/> <span class="time" id="T20-52-14"><a href="#T20-52-14">20:52:14</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;anna&gt;</span> (and libby's)<br/> <span class="time" id="T20-53-02"><a href="#T20-53-02">20:53:02</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;anna&gt;</span> (sure I'd invite you skiing -- if you're looking for a pattern I talk in parens)<br/> <span class="time" id="T20-53-22"><a href="#T20-53-22">20:53:22</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;JibberJim&gt;</span> Mind you it was Australian wine, so I can't blame the french for that.<br/> <span class="time" id="T20-53-29"><a href="#T20-53-29">20:53:29</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;anna&gt;</span> there you go<br/> <span class="time" id="T20-53-43"><a href="#T20-53-43">20:53:43</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;anna&gt;</span> but you can blame robin!<br/> <span class="time" id="T20-54-08"><a href="#T20-54-08">20:54:08</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;JibberJim&gt;</span> It was Chaals's fault really - and in fact he wouldn't've been there if it wasn't for france, so it was france's and therefore darobin's fault!<br/> <span class="time" id="T20-54-41"><a href="#T20-54-41">20:54:41</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;anna&gt;</span> so doubly his fault... we should eliminate him<br/> <span class="time" id="T20-54-57"><a href="#T20-54-57">20:54:57</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;JibberJim&gt;</span> After he's bought us more beer.<br/> <span class="time" id="T20-55-13"><a href="#T20-55-13">20:55:13</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;anna&gt;</span> robin is half australian you did know?<br/> <span class="time" id="T20-55-13-1"><a href="#T20-55-13-1">20:55:13</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;JibberJim&gt;</span> he still has some uses.<br/> <span class="time" id="T20-55-18"><a href="#T20-55-18">20:55:18</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;anna&gt;</span> of course<br/> <span class="time" id="T20-55-29"><a href="#T20-55-29">20:55:29</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;JibberJim&gt;</span> No, I didn't know that, poor bloke...<br/> <span class="time" id="T20-55-34"><a href="#T20-55-34">20:55:34</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;anna&gt;</span> we can get him to make us a gift card to some bars<br/> <span class="time" id="T20-55-44"><a href="#T20-55-44">20:55:44</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;anna&gt;</span> then take care of him<br/> <span class="time" id="T20-56-06"><a href="#T20-56-06">20:56:06</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;JibberJim&gt;</span> Yes, that's a plan - as long as he doesn't read this and rumble us.<br/> <span class="time" id="T20-56-37"><a href="#T20-56-37">20:56:37</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;anna&gt;</span> don't worry i will make sure he doesn't get ahead of us<br/> <span class="time" id="T20-57-02"><a href="#T20-57-02">20:57:02</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;JibberJim&gt;</span> Good, keep him distracted<br/> <span class="time" id="T20-57-58"><a href="#T20-57-58">20:57:58</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;JibberJim&gt;</span> So are you looking for work in Paris, or just enjoying the scenary / the generosity of poor deluded Robin?<br/> <span class="time" id="T20-58-44"><a href="#T20-58-44">20:58:44</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;anna&gt;</span> mostly the latter activities keep my busy, but sometimes i pretend to have other goals in life<br/> <span class="time" id="T20-59-17"><a href="#T20-59-17">20:59:17</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;JibberJim&gt;</span> Understandable - unfortunately the absence of cash just pushed me into a 3 month contract...<br/> <span class="time" id="T20-59-52"><a href="#T20-59-52">20:59:52</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;anna&gt;</span> i also cameo every once in a while saving children from hungy swedes<br/> <span class="time" id="T21-00-26"><a href="#T21-00-26">21:00:26</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;JibberJim&gt;</span> Excellent, I imagine few people in Paris have your experience in that, so you're much in demand.<br/> <span class="time" id="T21-02-49"><a href="#T21-02-49">21:02:49</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;darobin&gt;</span> HA, caught ya!<br/> <span class="time" id="T21-03-14"><a href="#T21-03-14">21:03:14</a></span> * JibberJim looks innocently at the ceiling...<br/> <span class="time" id="T21-03-16"><a href="#T21-03-16">21:03:16</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;JibberJim&gt;</span> at what?<br/> <span class="time" id="T21-05-13"><a href="#T21-05-13">21:05:13</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;darobin&gt;</span> trying to kill me!<br/> <span class="time" id="T21-05-41"><a href="#T21-05-41">21:05:41</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;darobin&gt;</span> but then, that's silly, if you get rid of me who'll pay for beer?<br/> <span class="time" id="T21-06-30"><a href="#T21-06-30">21:06:30</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;JibberJim&gt;</span> Good point, it's not as if we had a plan for you to organise beer for us before we killed you.<br/> <span class="time" id="T21-09-28"><a href="#T21-09-28">21:09:28</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;darobin&gt;</span> ah well never mind<br/> <span class="time" id="T21-10-03"><a href="#T21-10-03">21:10:03</a></span> * JibberJim is also pretty broke until end of the month and I actually get paid!<br/> <span class="time" id="T21-10-48"><a href="#T21-10-48">21:10:48</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;darobin&gt;</span> and to be honest you'd have had trouble getting me to buy you beer after I'm dead<br/> <span class="time" id="T21-11-01"><a href="#T21-11-01">21:11:01</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;darobin&gt;</span> at least not long before I'm dead<br/> <span class="time" id="T21-11-10"><a href="#T21-11-10">21:11:10</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;JibberJim&gt;</span> Anna had that all sorted, I'd've not worried about that.<br/> <span class="time" id="T21-11-20"><a href="#T21-11-20">21:11:20</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;darobin&gt;</span> or they stop paying me before I don't turn up at work...<br/> <span class="time" id="T21-11-28"><a href="#T21-11-28">21:11:28</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;darobin&gt;</span> oh I'm sure<br/> <span class="time" id="T21-11-52"><a href="#T21-11-52">21:11:52</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;darobin&gt;</span> she's always trying to get at my money, you know, women...<br/> <span class="time" id="T21-12-21"><a href="#T21-12-21">21:12:21</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;JibberJim&gt;</span> It's their role in life - but the stopping children being eaten is a valuable job - you should support it.<br/> <span class="time" id="T21-16-53"><a href="#T21-16-53">21:16:53</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;darobin&gt;</span> JibberJim: yes, that's actually a good thing I guess<br/> <span class="time" id="T21-16-55"><a href="#T21-16-55">21:16:55</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;darobin&gt;</span> anna!!!<br/> <span class="time" id="T21-17-12"><a href="#T21-17-12">21:17:12</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;anna&gt;</span> robin!!<br/> <span class="time" id="T21-17-20"><a href="#T21-17-20">21:17:20</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;darobin&gt;</span> what a surprise!<br/> <span class="time" id="T21-17-21"><a href="#T21-17-21">21:17:21</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;anna&gt;</span> ...da...<br/> <span class="time" id="T21-17-30"><a href="#T21-17-30">21:17:30</a></span> * JibberJim wonders why the surprise given the fact you're sharing beer!<br/> <span class="time" id="T21-17-32"><a href="#T21-17-32">21:17:32</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;anna&gt;</span> fancy running into u here<br/> <span class="time" id="T21-17-43"><a href="#T21-17-43">21:17:43</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;anna&gt;</span> but no longer sharing a computer<br/> <span class="time" id="T21-18-27"><a href="#T21-18-27">21:18:27</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;JibberJim&gt;</span> Aha, clever, you just found one left in the pub?<br/> <span class="time" id="T21-18-45"><a href="#T21-18-45">21:18:45</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;anna&gt;</span> actually in the back next to the loos<br/> <span class="time" id="T21-19-11"><a href="#T21-19-11">21:19:11</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;JibberJim&gt;</span> Nice, hope you wiped it clean first.<br/> <span class="time" id="T21-19-37"><a href="#T21-19-37">21:19:37</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;darobin&gt;</span> ah well you know those Finns, it's not like they know about hygiene or anything<br/> <span class="time" id="T21-20-59"><a href="#T21-20-59">21:20:59</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;anna&gt;</span> is there any beer left?<br/> <span class="time" id="T21-21-30"><a href="#T21-21-30">21:21:30</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;JibberJim&gt;</span> Still, good that it was there...<br/> <span class="time" id="T21-22-14"><a href="#T21-22-14">21:22:14</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;darobin&gt;</span> anna: was that a reflex question, or did it concern something real?<br/> <span class="time" id="T21-22-28"><a href="#T21-22-28">21:22:28</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;anna&gt;</span> what<br/> <span class="time" id="T21-22-29"><a href="#T21-22-29">21:22:29</a></span> * darobin thinks people should only communicate using IRC<br/> <span class="time" id="T21-22-36"><a href="#T21-22-36">21:22:36</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;darobin&gt;</span> at least the next day you have logs<br/> <span class="time" id="T21-22-41"><a href="#T21-22-41">21:22:41</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;darobin&gt;</span> anna: about the beer<br/> <span class="time" id="T21-22-49"><a href="#T21-22-49">21:22:49</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;anna&gt;</span> that would make for a happier world, true<br/> <span class="time" id="T21-22-54"><a href="#T21-22-54">21:22:54</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;anna&gt;</span> yes<br/> <span class="time" id="T21-23-25"><a href="#T21-23-25">21:23:25</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;darobin&gt;</span> there is beer left, it's right next to you dear<br/> <span class="time" id="T21-23-35"><a href="#T21-23-35">21:23:35</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;anna&gt;</span> got it<br/> <span class="time" id="T21-24-05"><a href="#T21-24-05">21:24:05</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;JibberJim&gt;</span> Hmm, I don't know - I've been known to regret what I said the night before - and at least often I've been able to fool myself that my friends were lying and I didn't jump up on the table and dance like a chicken...<br/> <span class="time" id="T21-24-08"><a href="#T21-24-08">21:24:08</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;anna&gt;</span> talking about hygiene: ever been to a sauna?<br/> <span class="time" id="T21-24-17"><a href="#T21-24-17">21:24:17</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;JibberJim&gt;</span> Yep<br/> <span class="time" id="T21-24-26"><a href="#T21-24-26">21:24:26</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;anna&gt;</span> a real one (aka a finnish one)<br/> <span class="time" id="T21-24-34"><a href="#T21-24-34">21:24:34</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;anna&gt;</span> ?<br/> <span class="time" id="T21-24-37"><a href="#T21-24-37">21:24:37</a></span> <span class="nick">&lt;JibberJim&gt;</span> no, not a real one, just crappy English o